Reclaim Your Power - A Corporate Escape Story | Grow With Kepo Ep. 23

What if your biggest obstacle isn’t burnout but comfort?

In this episode of Grow With Kepo, host Kepo sits down with Loree Philip, a Leadership & Career Coach who left a 16-year career at Boeing - not because she was exhausted or unhappy, but because she knew she was meant for more.

Loree’s story is a masterclass in aligned living, inner clarity, and taking bold, intentional leaps. 

If you’ve ever felt “fine” in your job but deeply misaligned in your spirit, this conversation is your invitation to ask bigger questions and trust the answers that rise.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:
• You don’t need to hit burnout to realize you’re misaligned
• Comfort can be the biggest barrier to a fulfilling life
• The power of creating space to reconnect with yourself
• Why listening to your heart voice matters more than your head voice
• How to take bold steps without having everything figured out
• The shift from external validation to internal clarity
• Letting go of identity tied to your job title
• Playing with ideas before taking the leap
• Recognizing internal resistance as a form of self-protection
• How to move from good to great in your career and life

BEST MOMENTS:

00:00:04. “I didn’t just want to go work in another industry because I wanted freedom.”
00:01:13. “She was also in a 9 to 5. And then she had her own light bulb moment.”
00:04:01. “It just felt like a total waste of my time.”
00:07:05. “If I took three weeks off of work, I would not come back.”
00:10:01. “Your career becomes part of your identity.”
00:14:24. “Most things that stop us are not external. They're internal.”
00:21:33. “The more we listen to the heart voice, the clearer it becomes.”
00:26:03. “Give yourself that attention. Even if it's five or ten minutes.”
00:34:39. “I literally talked to my boss the next day. I’m ready to go.”
00:42:57. “You are more powerful than you think you are.”

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Transcript

0:30

at some point it became very clear that I didn't just want to go work in another industry because I wanted freedom. And so what that meant for me was to really be able to dictate my schedule and say, this is how I want to work. I just want to work a few days a week or find working every day, but I want to have a lot of space in between to do stuff with my kids. And it was really getting clear about not only what I wanted to do, but how I wanted that to look. Here is something you need to hear. You're not lazy. You're just misaligned. I'm Keppel. I help high performers get unstuck by taking bold, aligned action. And this is grow with Keppel, where we speak with influential trailblazers who've made their mark and found the clarity that changed their lives. This is where we get clear, realign, and move toward a life that actually feels like yours. Welcome to the show. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the grow with Keppel show. Today, I am so excited about the special guest that we have because, like you, she was also in a 9 to 5. And then she had her own light bulb moment. And fast forward to today, she's a leadership and career coach. I spoke with her behind the scenes and you all. Her story is amazing. I can't wait for you to hear it and glean from it. Without further ado, I welcome to the show Laurie, Phil and. Thank you. Campo. It's so great to be here. Thanks for having me on today. when we connected one on one, I was like, okay, I think people actually need to hear your story. So why don't you walk us through what you were doing before in the 9 to 5 and kind of up until maybe when you had some kind of epiphany, like, wait, what am I doing? Yeah, definitely. So I had actually quite a long career. 16 years. I was, working professionally at Boeing. I was a strategy analyst, and I had gone through, you know, jumped career like, different position after position after position. So it was going pretty well, to be honest. And I wasn't burned out. I wasn't necessarily unhappy. which is kind of interesting because if you would have asked me a couple of years prior to the light bulb moment, as you talked about, I would have not even thought about like you would have said, Laurie, you're going to leave your career of 16 years, you're going to start a business and you're going to do your own thing. And I was like, girl, you're crazy. Like, forget it. That is so not me because guess I just was comfortable, to be honest, I was comfortable. But what really had happened was during Covid, and I know a lot of people had big transformations for themselves during Covid, even though there was a lot of, you know, crap going on. I was working from home, so I had just like this extra space. I was a little bit further away from work than when I was going into the office. Every day, and I think that helped me see a little differently, a perspective. But the moment that had happened is I was on a call WebEx, you know, standard weekly call. And I was listening to people talk about this or talk about that. And out of the blue, everything felt different. I could hear people talking, but what they were talking about was just not important information, or it sounded like they were just positioning because they wanted to get FaceTime and get the promotion and just saying what they needed to say. It just felt superficial and the same problems that we had been talking about every call where again and again and again, and I thought to myself, is this what I want to do for another 15 years? Because at that point was halfway, if not less than halfway in my career. And I'm sitting here on this call and it just felt like total waste of my time. And so I think that's what shifted for me is I started looking at my time as valuable, especially in the face of Covid, when people were dying, when people were really caring for their health, when they had, the end of their life. Kind of in your face. It's like, well, what about my life? Yeah, I get paid well to do this work, but am I making a difference? You know? And so it was, it was just a seed that was planted at that point. I did not wake up the next day and quit. I did not wake up the next day and think, okay, what am I going to do now? It was just this like perspective shift, an moment and I could not look at anything the same again. It would not go away. So I probably at that point would have been happy. Is that thought just went away and I just went back to my work and I pretended like I never saw this shift. Right. It would have been easier, but that's not what happened. And then I went on a process from there, and it took about a year, year and a half before I actually left from that point. I mean, and I completely left, right, I completely quit. I didn't have anything lined up or anything besides like a good idea of what I was going to do. That's how ingrained I was in that career. And people were so surprised that I was leaving and, making a choice to go. And what a lot of people feel like is quite risky. Right. Going from a salaried position to, hey, I'm going to go start a business. Wow. Okay. I don't know if you all picked up on something, but Lori literally said she wasn't burnt out. You said that you were not. It's not like you were feeling unfulfilled or anything. It was. It was good. And sometimes for some people, that's exactly where they are. They're good. But then that is what comes in the way of a great life. Right? And you said something. You said that it was when you had a bit of space. A bit of space between home and warmth. It's almost like there was now room for you to actually think beyond, you know, autopilot or just think beyond your regular routine than what you're used to. And that is something that I want people to hear, because sometimes, We don't even know what it is, what what it is, what building like. Is this really what I want to do? But we don't even have the space to even think about that. So actually just reflect. It's so important. And I will tell you, at some point I had along the way, I had told my boss, I'm like if I ever ask for more than two weeks off for vacation, say no. And I told him that because I knew that if I took three weeks off of work, I would not come back because I would take a week off and I would come back with this, like post vacation blues, existential crisis, what am I doing with my life? Even though I have this beautiful career on paper? Right. And so I think the space is important. And the other thing is, when we're thinking about, like a good career, a good life versus a great career and a great life, I had a lot of inner work to do during that time, undeserving that because when I started my career and I walked in my first day at this big, you know, fortune 50 company out of college, I was going to be making more in my salary than my mom had been making. After 20 years of being a schoolteacher. And so I already thought I had made it. And so why should I want more? And that right there, is some of the work I needed to do. I had to work on that. I deserve it. I had to work on, that my career is something that like, I can choose. It's at it's up to me because I had a lot of people like my husband and like my family who expected me there. Like, you have this great job. Why are you keeping it? You know, so I had other people that I cared their opinions about. I had to get past that. And I think when you're working this long in a career, it becomes part of your identity. This is who I am. When people you introduce yourself, it's like, what do you do? Oh, I work at Boeing. I'm a strategy analyst. I have, you know, consultant level. You know, I've got I've made it right. This is who I am. And so there is a shift in, well, who am I if I'm not that. in that years time, it didn't take me that long to figure out what I was going to do, but then it took me a little bit longer in smoothing things or out with people. I did get some certifications and coaching during that time, so I got paid to do my job and I set myself up for success for when I was going to leave. But it was a difficult decision. But I think when you get to a point where it's so clear within yourself that that's what you want to do, like nothing's going to stop you. And that's how I felt. And people were just like, wow, you're so brave. And I'm like, well, I cannot see myself. Like, I would die in three more months at this job. Not because it's terrible, but because I wanted my freedom, you know? And so that is also good to great, like I was pretty good at my job and I wasn't trying that hard. So it's like, well, what if I actually spent all my time and energy on something I love? Like, how amazing could I make that? What kind of impact could I have for others and also do it for myself? I mean, all these things came up along the way. Wow. Okay. At some point we were talking. I was like, Lori, just drop the mic. We're done. Because as Charlene, where you talked about how your career becomes part of your identity. I see that in a lot. And I see people struggle with, oh, you know, I'm a director or VP at so-and-so. And then they have this other thing on the side that I don't even talk about. Right? The moment somebody asks, what do you do? Oh, I'm a, you know, SVP of something operations somewhere, and you forget. So that's for people that are even already have their side hustle. They just they kind of want to bury that or they even want to talk about that side because it doesn't, quote unquote, seem as important. You know, it doesn't seem serious or respectable in society. And so I'm so glad that you touched on that. And what I want people to learn in this is what did you do? How did you work through those mental struggles? Because I love what you said. You know, it didn't take you long to figure out what it is you wanted to do next. It was all the other stuff mindset around what you feel you believe, so why you feel you deserve. Those are the things that you know, took time to actually like pull those things off. So walk us through the work that you did, the inner hope that you did. Yeah, it's it's so interesting because the inner work doesn't just come out in a to do list. We're like, okay, I realize that it's not so obvious, right? It's not like, oh, crap, I don't feel deserving. How do I fix that? Oh, well, I feel embarrassed to talk about this with my family and I did, I had not a clue what else I wanted to do. And the reason why it didn't take me that long to figure it out is because I decided to hire a coach to help me walk through that very specific process. Like, what should I do if it's not this? Because I honestly had never thought about it? Because my career, I could have stayed there for 30 or 40 years or whatever people do and careers anymore. And so went through that process and I figured that out, and I narrowed it down, and I narrowed it down and I'm like, oh, it's this. And then when I would hit a roadblock you know, something in me made me stop or something in me felt embarrassed. Then I had to really look at it like, what is going on here? Because our bodies are designed to keep us safe. And so the fear that came up, the feeling of like self-judgment or I'm not good enough, all that stuff that comes up is there to keep us safe and it feels bad. And then you just like, oh, maybe, maybe I shouldn't do this, right? Like the instinct is to stop. But I will tell you, if you want something bad enough, you're you'll be willing to say, okay, let's take a peek behind the curtain. And it's not always pretty, right? Let's take a peek. But once you get through that, it's easier to move on to the next step and you're not holding yourself back anymore. And it's not all at once. It's like, oh, I found that out. You know, I didn't think I deserved all this. Now that piece of me is is let go. And I've, I've come to terms with that. And loved it, that part of me and released it or did whatever I talked about it. Whatever you need to do. And then I can keep moving forward and then something else stops you. So it's like it's not that smooth. But if you want the outcome, if you want great, if you want freedom, there's there's one thing, at least one thing everybody wants that's probably listening to this. Otherwise they would just be happy in their 9 to 5 and they would be focusing all their energy on that. And so figure out what that thing is. So you can it can help motivate you to get past all of the things that come up. Because the truth is, most things that stop us are not external. They're internal. It's our selves putting us in a box. Oh, you're a director. This is your box. You spent all of your energy up until this point getting there. And I get that, like, I totally get that. And it does feel good to tell it to people. And people like, ooh, look at you, you know? Impressive. But if there's something within you that is saying but is there unmet for more or this isn't quite there, that's the part of you that you don't have to jump tomorrow, but just start listening to it, Just be open to it. Don't shut it down automatically. It'll keep coming up. I will tell you, it will keep coming up. So you might as well start now listening to your inner most like dreams and desires and thoughts because, for the most part, a lot of people don't end up in careers that they actually want. It was, our model of success was built on what everybody else told us, what success was like. I went to college and I chose, to get a degree in finance because I was good at math. I had no other reason to do that. And then I got a job at a company because that's what people were like, oh, you want to do this and this will be successful. And I'm glad I did. I learned so much along the way, but I wasn't necessarily listening to myself. I was listening others. And so this is the time where we need to listen to ourselves. And if it's just a whisper right now, that's fine. But listen to the whisper and I'll get a little louder. It'll get a little clearer. And you listen to it and you know it will open up at its own right. Timing for each person. this is so good. This is I want to just commend you on going completely against the grain, because it would have been so easy for you to calm down and not do anything because of the strong, close relationships around you that were not necessarily cheering you on. Like, yeah, Lori, go get your job and like, know what are you doing right there? Is that and there's the fact that you were fine at the job, you were getting paid well, you were doing without even trying where you can. I'm like, please. I also have my quote unquote balanced life, you know, and just chill. I don't even need to make an effort. This is what most people think. This is what most people just. And like you said, our bodies are always trying to protect us, right? So if we're going outside of our comfort zones, like, whoa, calm down, everybody calm down, let's just hand out a culture and just be safe. Well, you didn't do that. for me. It's almost like you need a little gravity. Like launching the rocket, and you just finally can push past that barrier. And I just want to reflect that back to you, because I think it's just it's most people don't do it. They don't do it. Yeah. said if I think thoughts for some people it would be easier if they were burnt out, then, Yeah, it had the job and you're doing well and all the conditions were set. But for you to say everything is fine. Everybody Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it makes me think of somebody, I used to work with. Who? Who ended up getting, laid off, and she was extremely unhappy. And she waited until she got pushed out. Right. And she went and found something else. And she's so much happier now. And so sometimes if we don't do it ourselves, you know, the universe conspires to get us where we need to go. And it's not that pretty. Sometimes, you know, it doesn't feel good to get laid off, doesn't feel good to go look for something else. And so we can wait for something like that to happen for the stress of our work to create, you know, medical condition in our body. And that happens to people, too. And so or we can take our life into our own hands and start planning it ourselves. And I think where people get concerned is they think about it's this huge leap because it feels like it. And it does. It feels like a big shift. Right? It's a big decision. the podcast that I had created during, you know, since I've been in corporate is called Daring to Leap. And so the leap is like, wow, I did it. I'm doing something else. I'm not, you know, I'm not just going with the flow of the status quo. Right? I'm choosing. But that leap could be a very small step for somebody right now. It doesn't mean you quit your job, leave it tomorrow. It could mean I start to really give myself that space every day, start thinking about it, even even creating their lives now a little bit better. Like what do I love to do? And that usually helps people that have no idea what else they would want to do is to start tapping into you know, their passions, their loves, things that they used to do that they don't do anymore. And that kind of opens yourself up, opens up your heart to dream a little bit. And then for some people, entrepreneurship is never going to be what they want. And that's okay. There are a lot of other careers. I mean, they're even other industries. You could do the same exact thing you're doing for another industry, something you're more passionate about. I was working on attack helicopters for militaries. Like, I don't care about attack helicopters. I don't care about, you know, it sounded cool, like going to a bar and like, having a guy come up, like, what do you do? I'm like, well, I sell attack helicopters to blah, blah, blah. And they're like, wow, that's so impressive. Yeah it is. It's it. It doesn't like me up, except for when somebody is like, hey, go you. Right? Like that's it. There's more. There's so much more. And so sometimes we have to just give ourselves the space to explore that a bit further. And then the ball starts rolling and then gets a little faster and I'll go faster. And then all of a sudden you look back and you're like, I'm going to do this, and nobody's going to stop me. can so relate to that in terms of you know sometimes it's not the big leap or a daring to leap is not a massive jump. You know it might be. Oh like for instance, maybe that's easy. For example, you wanted to start your podcast, right? Or even me say, oh, okay, I'm going to buy the mic and I'm going to name my podcast, you know, and I'm going to record the first one. It's not a massive thing, but it's also huge in that we're taking that, you know, that step. So I love I love that you touched on that. The other thing that you said is, doing things that you love again, creating that space and those kinds of things sound like a way to listen actively, because you did say people should listen to that voice. And I feel that one way to listen to that, I said, okay, you know, oh, I used to like doing this. What happened to that? Let me do that. What are ways would you say you listened to yourself or what other ways would you tell other people like, based on your experience? This is how you listen and you expand from just paying attention to that voice in your head, because it's one thing to sit down and listen and journal. I want to start off by explaining there's two different voices. There's the voice in your head, the one that's programed, the one that it can be a bit critical. Like the inner critic type voice, the one, the saying, no, you're never going to do this. You don't know what you're doing. You're fine where you are. Like all of that kind of language and that that that is programed in your mind over years and years and years and usually when you're very, very young, maybe you had a critical parent, maybe you tried something exciting and got shot down, and now your mind is telling you, don't do it. Just stay where you are. That is different from the inner voice I'm talking about, which is comes from your heart. So first, that's that's kind of why I was talking about doing things that you love, like shifting your your perspective from what's going on in our busy minds into our hearts and listening. So that voice is more loving, it's more excited. It's it's more like optimistic, like what's possible type of of feeling. So you can tell the difference. the cool thing about it is that heart voice is you and the, the mind voice is just a part of you. So like it's just that fear part of you. But that doesn't mean that the rest of you is like, I can do this, right? And that's why sometimes we can push through that or we can see that and go, okay, I understand why maybe this is coming up for me, but I actually really want to do this. So I'm going to get let that go and move past it. Right. So those are the two we want to be careful about because it's like yeah I listen to myself and I'm this is I'm going to fail at this. I'm not going to do it right. there's a difference between the two. I love that you pointed out the differences between people. I don't just laugh in here because of the example that. Yeah, I am listening to myself. I'm gonna I'm going to feel hopefully I'm going to die. This is going to hurt. But, no, it's it's very, very helpful. So when we listen to the the heart voice. Right. the heart voice tells us, oh, wow. Keppel, you used to love to paint. What happened to that? Oh, let me go pick up some paint and just do that right. feel that the more we listen to the heart voice, the clearer I becomes. And the more progress we actually make towards, you know, building or living the life that we actually really want to live. I could probably give you like a zillion ways. it starts with noticing. The space. So most of us and this is not a judgment. This is just how hectic and busy and our lives are. Go from one thing to the next. And even when your car you put on music or a podcast and when you get to work, you're doing emails. And if you have a free second, you might be checking Instagram. And if you have a you know what I mean. So there's a lot of input coming in constantly, like online. It's the attention economy, right? Everybody's getting your attention. And what I'm saying is give yourself that attention. And even if it's start really small, if you're like, okay, I'm so packed, give yourself five minutes, ten minutes of just space. And I tell you what is quite uncomfortable because our habits are so ingrained it's like that instant gratification dopamine. When you pick up your phone and do something, I'm doing something, but there's so much you're missing out on within yourself. And so you don't have to be, you know, you can journal for sure if you if you like to journal. Some people don't like to journal, but if you do take five minutes in journal, if you have five minutes before a meeting, don't just jump on your email or your phone. Just take a pause. Take a few breaths. Feel your body look around. Ask yourself one question like, hey, what would I love to do tonight? That's it. Like, just start asking yourselves more questions throughout the day, maybe. And the answer doesn't come up instantly all the time. Sometimes it pops in later, but still ask yourself, hey, would it be amazing this weekend? Or what was that thing I used to love to do? I don't even remember. It's been so long, you know, and things will start coming up and you'll notice it. But I don't know about you. I had shut down myself and my voice for so many years that it. It's not an overnight process to all of a sudden and say, what do I want? Because I stopped asking myself what I wanted because especially when I had a career, it's like, what is my boss want? I have a husband. Where's my husband want? I have five kids. What do they need? it's stopped being about me, and it was about everybody else. So it takes quite a bit of unappealing to get back to. What is it that I actually want? What do I think about this? Not what does he think about this and, and and what's great about it is it builds. Not only does it build that openness and your connection to yourself in your heart, it helps you become a better leader, decision maker. find your authentic voice for people that want to stay in their careers and understand how to do that, you need to know what you think. And it doesn't have to be like, I have to present a 20 page, you know, spreadsheet or PowerPoint on this topic. It starts small. this is so, so good. I just I love all the points they are touching. And something that strikes me is. I love the way you've broken down for people. This is what it means to listen to your heart. It's not even about, oh, let me stop and listen to my heart. It's literally about creating this space for that. And I can so relate to that. You know, when I used to just go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, I remember one time committing to my coach that okay before another call that I have, I'm just going to pause for just five minutes before the call because I would go from one thing to another, that's another. And then by the end of the day, I've run myself so ragged, I feel so spent. And I'm thinking, but what did I actually do, right? What did I do? And I so I so agree with that. Like the more we give ourselves that space, the more we can even start to expand and the more we can use that's actually here. we think about something as opposed to other people's voices and other people's opinions. So real quick, I know that we didn't touch on how like, you actually transitioned from 9 to 5. just want people to hear that part of your story. So it took you a year, a year and a half, right, to finally quit from when you had that light bulb Yeah. So how did you decide that? Okay, this is actually what I want to do. And what are some scary things where our small leaps of being leaps that you did to actually finally launch the business? it was a longer process because I think I, I really needed that time. So I spent a few months figuring out I'm not ready to retire. Right. I'm leaving to do something else and I kind of had a blank sheet of paper like what else would I want to do? And looking at, okay, what do I love to do? What parts of work do light me up? Like what kind of impact do I want to make with people? Because that's important to me. What are my values? How do I want to structure that? Like, at some point it became very clear that I didn't just want to go work in another industry because I wanted time, I wanted freedom. And so what that meant for me was to really be able to dictate my schedule and say, this is how I want to work. I just want to work a few days a week or I find working every day, but I want to have a lot of space in between to do stuff with my kids. And and so it was really getting clear about not only what I wanted to do, but how I wanted that to look. And that helps. Basically take out a lot of things, like if I'm not just getting another job at another corporate place, okay, off the table, and then you can just start to get clearer and clearer and clearer. And so I decided that I wanted to do coaching and, work with individuals to help them transform in some way, shape or form, you know, like, couple you want to say, start a business, I'll help you do that, or career leadership or whatever. And I wasn't exactly sure what. Like, I loved working with other people to help them get somewhere from point A to point B or be better at what they're doing. And so, decided I was going to play with that. So it wasn't just like, okay, that's what I'm going to do, I'm going to do it. So I was going to test that out by signing up to get training to be a coach. So I went through a training to figure out is this really it? not only to learn the skill set because I could use that skill set in my current work. If it didn't work out, if I said, you know, I thought coaching was going to be X, Y, or Z, but I went through the training and I decided, actually, I don't really love it, you know? So there's a lot of room to play around and figure it out because you I think that's what happens is when we feel like we have to decide and then we can't change our minds. And we can change our minds. And it's getting into that different mindset. So I was playing around with coaching and decided, you know, I do really like this. And I'm going to move forward in that direction. And so then I started to get some clients, some like pro bono type clients just to just to coach them and see what they thought. And then I got some, you know, paying clients. And then so I started to sort of play in that way, like, I could do this and around of that, you know, I was working on some of the things that I already discussed around, you know, deserving to leave, talking to my family about, getting my husband on board because, you know, I had just gotten a promotion. We were buying a house. Like, what do you mean? You're just going to say no to this money coming in every two weeks? So we had to get a plan in place. And I really wrote, like, a business plan in that sense for him, because I wanted him to see, okay, like, here's what's possible realistically, although I will say it's always slower than you think. So it's it's the overlap you're doing is great. Careful. and I will tell you, don't let me forget. I will tell you why I decided to to leave my corporate job before I had, like, a huge business setup, like, so I convinced him, and and part of it was, I think my determination, I think he saw that I wasn't going to give up on this after I did a year of training and I was doing, know, some clients on the weekends and whatever. And so he's like, okay, if you want to do this, let's, let's do it. And I, I literally talked to my boss the next day. I'm like, I'm not letting this simmer. I'm ready to go, which was so crazy because I felt so bad because he answered the phone and I said, how's it going? He's like, yeah, everything's going great. But I feel like there's a shoe about to drop, like something is going to happen. And I'm like, well, might be right. Because on that point, yeah, I, I've decided to put in my notice and it was just, you know, shock. Right. Because I was, you know, a good employee and I was his right hand person and all that. so I went piece by piece, step by step, and we'll never know what are all the steps going to be. But once you take a step, you start planning out the next step. And once you take that step, you plan out the next step. And when you get resistance on that step, you look at yourself and go, where is this coming from? And you listen to yourself and you try to, you know, work it through and you get support if you need support. You know, I had skills from learning, going through, being a coach to be able to self coach myself or talk to people, in my network and notice the types of things that were coming out of my mouth. Right. Like being really self-aware. And so I would really advocate for just take a step, see how it goes, plan out the next step. Get a support system that believes in what you want to do because good or bad, like family wants the best for us. And that comes out in their fears because they would never take a leap. They, you know, they see the security and that's because they love us, but they're projecting their fears onto us, right? Like so. So get support that's there for you. Like where do you want to go? and you know, just take it one step at a time and it's it's quite exciting. And never forget, go back to what we talked about before like what is your reason that why write for me. Like I said, at some point it was freedom being able to decide how I use my time. I was so done with other people saying, you need to do X, Y, and Z, and I knew x, Y, and Z was a waste of my time. And so that was a big thing for me. And so what's the big thing for you? And remind yourself of it. Because that helps us keep ourselves motivated. And I, I can't advocate for more around taking the space to listen to yourself. that will help you if you never, ever leave your 9 to 5 and start a business that will help you in your 9 to 5, it will help you be a better decision maker. It will help you come up with differentiated creative ideas. It'll help you know what you want to do. It'll help you know it's like there's no losing in the, in there's no losing on that step. Yeah. There's no losing. And the, the other thing that sounded like was an important criteria for you who you also want to be. Right. Not just your. Why. Because you said that for you was very important that you know, it's you are someone who has an impact. And Am. think that that is just so awesome. So How are you helping people now? And how can people reach you if they want to help, if they want to work with you? Yeah. So now I'm really focused on, like you mentioned, I am a leadership and career coach. And people come to me because they have a challenge. They they're ready for the next step, a promotion, a change in career. That kind of thing. Or they're having a hard time. They feel stuck. And what happens is, is that I help them figure that out. But what they really wanted is that deeper level, like feeling more confident in themselves, knowing what they actually want and feeling like they can go for that. So there's a lot of pivoting like, oh, I want to go do this. And then I work with my client and they're like, they figure out what they actually want to do. And then I help them figure out their confidence comes through when they're listening to themselves and where we're really I'm pointing them out like, hey, this is your life, and let's figure this out for you. And so that's where I love I love the empowerment part of it. And it's a big fluffy word, but it can be done where you can work with. I worked with somebody who was kind of a negative person, and she was like, no joke. I am the like, optimistic person in my friend group. Now, I, I give them advice. And it was a change in the mindset. and also like going from the cynical part, like it won't work for me to actually seeing it work. That's a big difference. Like, I did this and it actually helped. Great. Now I can get on board and that cynical part of ourselves will start to slow their roll and let the yeah. you're creating evidence Yeah. brain to be like yeah. No I did that and I can do it again or I pushed past that limit and I can do it again. And that's so good. There's another thing that you touched on and I think it's so important for people listening. You used the word I'm just going to play with this. Then you said that for you it was just about doing the next thing and the next thing. And finally you did not feel that, oh, once you make a decision, that's it. It's final is permanent. You gave yourself down to just be flexible in your thinking and not be so, you know, final. this is the end. And I think that's what keeps people stuck. Sometimes they they are afraid to make a decision because they feel that, oh, now I'm just going to be stuck in that forever. You know? What if I find myself back here again where I'm not happy? Because, after all, I was the one who decided back then to follow this career right? You said I should remind you Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny because I knew deep down that if I stayed in my 95 I wouldn't actually put my all into my business because I'm not that person. I would be comfortable, I would find an excuse, I wouldn't do it. And so for me, I literally had to stop the one thing. And I also have two kids and, you know, so I could see where I have a certain amount of time in my day and I didn't want to make it a side hustle. I wanted to dedicate the time only to the business. And so it's it's really about knowing yourself. You know, some people can do it. I just knew that I wouldn't, that I had too many fears and things holding me back, that I would just let it go if I didn't just leave. The one thing. that is so brave. That is so, so brave of you. And I just commend you on that. So if people want to work with you, Lori, how do direction Yeah, yeah. People can, find me on my website. We start coaching.com. I do have the Daring to Leap podcast, which is on Apple and Spotify and all the places, and I'm actually really excited because I'm revamping my YouTube channel. And so, you can find me on YouTube. There isn't a lot there right now, but I have like so much content that I'm repackaging to put out. It's going to be amazing. Yeah. It is. It's a, Laurie. Phillip. Coach, I need to. we're going to link all of that in the description for everyone. This is this was so good I learned a lot. I loved the how you differentiated between the different voices, the ways to listen to your heart and how it's about, you know, just given the room for that. It just everything, you know, just not worrying about trying to get all the steps in and just one step after the other. any final thing you want to leave the listener of the world watching with, especially those who are maybe the former you right? They are actually comfortable. They're fine and comfortable in their job. Yeah. Yeah. The comfortable one is interesting because I want people to know that they can choose, that they're that powerful. They can choose. So what if play around with it? What if you got to choose? What would you love to do? And so that was something was interesting because I, was on a podcast as a guest and the interviewer asked me, what would you tell your 21 year old self? And I ended up crying on, on, on the, on the interview. But what I had said was an it came out of nowhere. I said, you are more powerful than you think you are. And I felt that because my 21 year old self was scared and loss, didn't know who she was. Like that power is in you and it the root of it is knowing what you want, feeling that confidence in yourself, believing in yourself, knowing that there's more for you if that's what you choose. Like, I am a big advocate of being intentional. So if you choose to have your 9 to 5, great, make it an intentional choice. I choose this career and I'm going all in if that's what I want to do. And and that helps you let go of the guilt that's there of you thinking, well, maybe I've been kind of wanting to do this other thing. I just decide and be okay with it. Or if you want to do the other thing, you know, don't give yourself crap for not being there and your 9 to 5 at full capacity because you're you're also working on something else. So, intentionality and and really believing that there's more for you if you choose it. Like if you're comfortable. Great. I'm so happy for you. I mean, we need people in the workforce. we can't convince everyone to leave, and we shouldn't. Yeah, it's not for everyone. it's not for everyone. Well, this is this is so great. So many mic drop moments. I love how we started this episode. We're like, oh yeah, it's going to be 35, 40 minutes. And Yeah, I saw that, too. because it's so, so good. I really love this. And yeah, I, I just I can't wait for people to find you on this, you know, work with you as well when they're going through any transition. This was really good. You all. Thank you so much Larry. This is amazing. Oh. Thank you, Cabo. Thank you so much. All right.